Now, this is more like it: http://www.sfpromise.org/
This should be our nation's promise to our young. If you do the work, get the grades and your parents sign on as partners - you are guaranteed a college education in your local state college. You'd rather pursue a trade? Okay, we'll take care of that for you, too.
I believe that it is in Sweden - but don't quote me on that - where every citizen has their college education completely subsidized by the state. Not just undergraduate, but all the way to a doctorate if that is your path. Not only that, but they also pay a stipend to offset living expenses. Now, Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church notwithstanding (http://www.godhatessweden.com/), I don't want to be behind Sweden in education anymore. (It's nothing personal, Sweden - honest!)
Now, if the President really believes that we can lead the world in college graduates by 2020 (?), this is the bold kind of action to which he must commit today.
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216 comments:
1 – 200 of 216 Newer› Newest»FH, this is definitely a good program. Publicity will help.
Susan, you know I think you're a gifted surgeon and a brilliant diagnostician. But your batting average last year was under .500.
Boss, I saved almost half my patients. And every one of them last year was a long shot to start with. I've never, ever been accused of malpractice, and certainly not for the work I did last year . . . .
I can't tell that to my boss, Susan. He's not a doctor. He's a government official. He looks at the stats. You won't be receiving the merit bonus. That's final.
Before anyone gets angry with me, I already apologized to you all on the "Stimulus" thread. But I still bought an aluminum bat to escort some of the ladies and certain gentlemen in my night class to their cars. I'd put a smiley face, but it's not funny.
Here's my thing on this thread. And I admit, it's based on personal experience as opposed to any great study I've ever done or read. But here's what I don't understand. And someone please explain to me. In the history of this country, it was not until the late, maybe mid '80's that a college degree became so frikkin' important. When I was of college age, you needed a degree to be a lawyer, a doctor, things like that.
Every, and I mean every other vocation, including accountant, banker, financial advisor was open to High School graduates who were able to pass a few tests.
So how and why did this change?
And are we better for it?
My opinion? No.
But I could be wrong. So....
Huh?
Ted - I don't know about the working world in the late 80's because I was graduating from high school then...but I *do* know that my parents raised me to think that I was going to college - no matter what. I think it wasn't until the late 80's that I even realized that I didn't *have* to go to college to lead a productive (and perhaps successful) life.
My dad didn't graduate from college and he's done very well...I know, it's a different time now, but I've worked with lots of people who don't have degrees. I have heard of some companies that won't promote someone to the next level if they don't have a bachelors - but that was in the early 90's. I haven't really heard that since then.
I guess it depends upon your field.
I'm sorry about the merit pay disagreement. The need to use money to incentivize just riles me.
I've heard analyses that link the change in cultural attitude toward college with the GI Bill. Service men (and some women) returning from WWII and Korea got paid to study. Many who otherwise would've gone back to the farm or the factory, took advantage of the chance; many became teachers themselves in the public school system in the 50s and 60s, which then became a college-prep course, in large part because the teachers themselves considered their own college educations to be the turning points in their lives. Or so the reasoning goes, I think.
One minute she's 42, another 44, now she's around 38,39.
Just how old are you, Suz? Kinda curious about what is 'reel' about you and what's not.
by troll,winkingtiger, you couldn't mean someone who shows up to a FDR sympathetic site and posts a link to a right wing libertarian encyclopedia in which minimum wages, full employment policies and unionization rights are lambasted in the name of an economic theory that no sane policy maker can take seriously.
For if that is what you mean by troll, then you are it. But of course winkingtiger what your posting that link shows is how totally lost you are in discussion. You had no idea what your favorite site represents.
You thought it was compatible with the host's
politics. It's not. It's antithetical.
What's wrong with bloggers generally is people wanting to have things (like insight) without doing any real study.
Don't forget that I read carefully the article that dsgonzale introduced (Gaussian copula function) and the analysis of the Fed that xootsuit recommended. What contribution have you made to good faith serious discussion about the serious problems confronting us today?
Now I am not saying that you should have studied at Harvard and Princeton, been part of a successful start up and published a book with a major academic press to blog. These seem to be the standards that xootsuit insists on, though I doubt that he has such credentials.
It's perfectly possible to be Fry Cook. You just have to make some effort. And making the effort does not make you a troll. It means you are serious and care about the future of the Republic. It also means you have zero tolerance for criminal threats of revenge and violence.
BLAH, BLAH BLAH.
Oh, won't you please shut up now, Hartal?
I vote, since we are a democracy, as to whether or not Hartal should be allowed to continue to abuse everyone this site that disagrees with him. He's seems to thrive on goading people into a reaction. And should they rightfully be goaded into making a threat, he claims some sort of self-righteous piety. Like he's innocent. Do you really think you're being fair to us as your guests, ferret?
One can only wonder how he treats his poor wife when she disagrees with him.
Wow. You have obviously had some pretty horrible men in your life. You think Ted Spe was righfully goaded by what I said into threatening to take an aluminum bat to my head. You need help as does TedSpe.
We'll see who has an ounce of civility. I'll check back into this discussion later tonight.
There's one sick person here, and it's not Tedspe or myself.
He never hurt you, he made it clear that he was joking. You goaded him into it with a verbally abusive tirade just like you've done to almost everyone here, and now you expect what? Legal action? Get real.
Sometimes, Hartal, life presents us with opportunities to learn something about ourselves before it's too late. I think this is one of those times.
So, back to the subject at hand. WT, I believe that there is a similar program in Long Beach, but not as community-involved. I actually heard about this yesterday on Gavin Newsom's show on Green 960. (I got so excited, I had to put up a new post!)
Now that I think about it, I believe it's the Netherlands that does the guaranteed schooling. Not sure how Fred Phelps feels about them...
You know, ferret, I apologize for posting off-topic again, but Hartal just keeps swimming around in my head. After this, I'll be finished, I promise.
Hartal, I hope you're listening. This is a golden opportunity for self-improvement here--I hope that you're intelligent enough to realize it. You deserve to be treated with dignity and respect just as much as the next person. Dignity is a given, because I believe everyone has inherent worth no matter who they are. Respect, though is something that must be earned. Everyone is on your case for a good reason. We're not persecuting you. The fact that you're getting flak from both sides should tell you something--it's not bias. Think about what people are telling you--over and over again. There's some truth there. Take it, it's valuable feedback and in a safe forum. The only thing you have to lose is some pride and the thing you have to gain is humility--which is a very good thing. And if you can do this, you'll gain the respect of everyone here--which is what you really want, right? No one here can judge you for having to learn a lesson--we all have had to learn things about ourselves. You'll be a better person for it, trust me.
Anyway, dude, I'm just trying to put into action what my Catholic faith instructs me to do. That's what I know about my religion.
Regarding spending more on education. Shouldn't our government worry about using the funds wisely already allocated to them to do the job that they claim is theirs before they go making any new promises? Just sayin'.
wv: perewax. Good Lord, will it never end?
I said it before and I'll say it again: It's the administrative costs that are killing school budgets.
I agree, dsg. Why do administrators need so many assistants? And why do they need assistants? And why do they need to be paid so much if our schools are failing to educate so badly? And why do they need to belong to unions in order to teach?
I honestly believe that unions are also a big part of the problem. They're an outdated mode of justice. We should have blanket federal laws that protect worker's rights without the interference of an political action committee.
wv: suabl. lol.
'they' being teachers needing unions in order to teach.
I'm ranting, I know.
Oh, and btw, right wing PACs took on union political activity, especially beginning in the 80s. The right-wingers funded very expensive litigation that challenged political use of union dues -- primarily on first amendment grounds. Union PAC days are pretty much long gone.
As voting blocs, however, unions are powerful. That's how democracy works.
xootsuit, as yogi would doubtless tell you, you are most pathetically hilarious when you talk to yourself--don't mimic scholarly debate, don't turn debates into competitions. But it was time for you to entertain us again; it had been a while since you told us that you are one to take the high road.
But let me ask you what allows you to judge what is real scholarly discourse and what is mimicry?
At any rate, you obviously don't read well between the lines. Subtleties are as lost on you as economics is lost on winkingtiger who has no idea about the implications of what he reads.
And it's obvious that the reason that you think I have crossed a line is that you have made a fool of yourself in your wailing attempts to critique my positions. This is not something you think a Fry Cook should be able to do, yet your belligerent nonsense is there for a scholar to see in your attempts to debate me on various issues.
And why do you keep on telling me to sign in when you don't sign in under your own name?
I don't feel persecuted by you, Gina. I don't think you are worth a reply.
did somebody fart?
In my experience hartal and yogi are both disgusting trolls. Both love to pretend and insult. Clearly, neither has a real life.
Gina, I have no basic issue with unions, they still have a purpose, but some unions are definitely problematic--the main one I'm thinking of, of course, is the prison officers' union. The teachers' union isn't too bad, but it definitely could use some tightening up.
You're free to assume that I am pretending about what you think I am pretending about. But you did not answer my question. What qualifies you to judge what is real scholarly discourse and what is mimicry?
Perhaps I should change the name of this blog to "Beating A Dead Horse"...bleah.
bleah, indeed.
This should not be the place disgraced trolls come to haunt.
The dishonesty (claiming "victory" when the only achievment was quoting real writers), the bizarre pretension (citing scholars as if they are peers), and the utter absence of humor and metaphoric flash are all reasons to ignore hartal's "serious" posts. They're long, essentially harmless strips of tripe. But the vicious language is another matter. Whoever is posting under the name hartal knows bigger blogs would not put up with the nasty stuff. So the coward dumps it here. What a pathetic loser that thing is.
Which bigger blogs would not put up with my stuff? I post to Brad DeLong's blog and actually got into a very interesting discussion with esteemed macroeconomist Nick Rowe about the only argument that Obama's conservative opposition could reasonably advance . It's true that I got suspeneded a revolutionary black nationalist list but they then reinstated me even though they took my support for Obama as crypto imperialism and fascism. But that's not what you mean by a bigger blog, I assume.
Vlae Kershner and Phil Bronstein got me reinstated to SF Gate against LaSalle's pathetic attempts to have me blocked in violation of the terms and conditions of SF Gate use. Kershner personally wrote me to tell me that a decision had been made not to remove my criticism of LaSalle!
Just to make this clear for you, xootsuit. I take it the British modernist that you have been talking about is Alex Z.
But go on assuming whatever you want.
Three things are certain: you don't have the mental discipline to be a scholar, as opposed to a cheap trick lawyer or a vicious Giants blogger; you are too convinced of your own genius to appreciate the many things I have brought to your attention and explained for you--you're the kind of person who needs to think that they already knew everything they have been taught while I freely and compulsively cite appreciatively those from I have learned; and you are a lonely and pathetic man, as Yogi has described so well.
The bigger blogs would not put up with the mindless ad hominem vitriol posted here, under your name. I made that point clear, hartal. I wrote:
"But the vicious language is another matter. Whoever is posting under the name hartal knows bigger blogs would not put up with the nasty stuff."
Pay attention. Whoever is posting the nasty out of con-troll crap under the name hartal should find another dumping ground. Understand?
And if you've managed to engage with real scholars interested in the things you're interested in, harry, I (for more than a few, I suspect) would not be sad to see you spend your time there.
Oh, btw, the fantasies you and yogi beat on are pretty telling. Go change some diapers on your imaginary children.
I do have a problem with how unions operate in general. Don't get me wrong, I fully support a fair and equitable workplace environment, but when they become politically active and use union dues to support only one party, that's when things go wrong for me. I understood their importance when working conditions were unfair, but today things are different. Working conditions are better because of unions,true, but in a modern society full of litigating lawyers looking for work, I think unions have outlived their usefulness and do more harm than good.
Take, for example, the Postal worker's union. Last year the post office lost millions. In order to cut losses, they offered early retirement to workers. They union said no way. This year, after even more losses, the Post Office says we're shutting down offices, selling property, delivering less mail. The union finally concedes this time, but not without some more fighting.
You could say that without union interference last year, the money saved this year could have prevented jobs from being lost this time...especially ones that are not going to get early retirement, but are just being cut to stop the hemorrhaging.
That's the type of stuff that I don't like. And I think it's intellectually dishonest of Democrats to continue to take union support...especially when churches aren't allowed the same right.
And, I honestly hope that that troll reference wasn't directed towards me also.
Gina, I'm not saying unions perfectly represent workers. Sometimes the the battles they get involved in seem simple-minded and their positions seem uncreative. But they don't often get to pick their battles. Management controls the agenda. Often the best the union can do is fight against whatever new plan management proposes to use to eliminate jobs and reduce salary. It's a frustrating, imperfect system.
And no, I wasn't talking about you.
I think John Goodman summed up the life of the mind best.
What I wonder is this: There is a truck driving movie genre and a truck driving song genre, a train movie genre and a train song genre, an automobile movie genre and an automobile song genre, but even though there's a wrestling movie genre, there's no wrestling song genre. Thoughts?
WT, thank you for the new information, but I'm not sure two songs comprise a genre. ;)
wv: tredan rah-ther
I have no additional comment, but my wv is "taser." Seems apropos.
My children are imaginary? Well what does it say that I have spoken more lovingly of my experiences as a father than you have? The only imaginary thing we have here is your relationship to the real nature of your intellect and wit. Of course you want me to leave so that nothing can disturb that imaginary relationship you have with yourself. It's just usually the case that dilettantes and lawyers, all too often found in one person such as yourself, hate having to converse with people who know how to think scientifically and systematically. There is just used to using their loud mouthed drunken voice to hold court at parties, not noticing the cringes and frowns in response to their non-stop bloviation. And there is nothing that I have called you here that I have not called you on sfgate for months, you doltish blowhard.
Wrestling movies:
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Movies/index.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/2osyqv
And don't forget what they say about wrestling with a pig....
WT, one of my law school classmates is general counsel for WWE. We're having our 25th reunion later this year, I have to hit him up for money.
Lovin', Touchin', Squeeeeeezayin'?
I got you in a stranglehold bay-beh! Ya right acrosshow face!
Detroitian.
My wv is lessn: how I learned readn, ritn, and rithmatic.
You might ask yourself how the average Swede can read, write, and speak English better than the average student from California. They can type English better than the average blowhard on this blog.
Why is this country going to hell? Well, you have all the evidence that you need here. You have a Stanford trained lawyer who insisted that the majority of illegal immigrants have only been here a short time while his own data showed that more than half have been here for over five years though the majority who do enter do seem to return even if at markedly lower rates since the commencement of the border war in the 90s. Rather than admit that he was in error, the Stanford trained lawyer welcomed the support of an obvious substance abuser to try to win the debate. How does a Stanford trained lawyer sink so low that he does not see that such support undermines his credibility with thoughtful people?
Then we have another lawyer who would not let go off the absurd thesis that Solis' appt to Secty of Labor is less important or revealing than the eventual appts to the NRLB will prove to be. YOu can scour the entire exchange for an argument that would justify such a thesis; you'll find none. It was of course never contested that the NRLB appts are important. Yet xootsuit would not let go of this absurd thesis and then relied on the support of a bigoted right wing, know-nothing Catholic.
Next exhibit is winkingtiger who has less than a high schooler's understanding of economics so he joins a New Deal blog and admits that he gets his info from a site devoted to the libertarian who literally thought that FDR was a fascist. Winkingtiger does not even know this.
The sunken standards, irrationality, and silence in the face of violent threats just goes to show you why America is losing its place in the world.
Why would I insult FH or Yogi? They represent hope.
What does it gain me to have a humane view of illegal aliens and to stress the importance of having Solis at Dept of Labor and to sharpen criticism of right wing libertarian ideas in a time of deep recession? I know that you did not take high school economics--how about civics?
I'm a little hardle of hearing these days...did someone say "blah, blah, blah"?
Thank you both for not thinking of me as a troll. Maybe I'm a little trollesque--but it's only because I get so bored with the topic at hand and wanna talk about other more interesting things, that are more interesting, of course.
wv:progroat: huh?
Really what is it with you and xootsuit? You're asking me why I insulted you, but you just called me a "hypersensitive obnoxious troll". Please have some pride; stop acting hurt. Oh yes xootsuit has told us that he's one to take the high road. Now please how funny is that?
Wellll...it did sound a little like me when I'm in one of my more cantankerous moods. When I need to poke at a liberal or two for the fun of it. But it's nice of you to say that I'm not like it, just the same.
Hartal...do you know what your problem is?
Um, someone threatened to hit me over the head with an aluminum bat. I am insensitive to political insult and caricature, not to violent threats. Zero tolerance. It's part of the sickness of this blog that the reaction to such a threat was not immediate and unequivocal. No one knows Ted Spe well enough to be sure that he was just playing; moreover, such words can't be played with.
Hartal, it's you. In all the time that I've read Tedspe's comments, he's never threatened anyone, or even expressed hostilty. And neither have the others on here.
Why can't you accept some responsibility for your behavior? You go around setting your traps for everyone, and when they're unfortunate enough to fall for it, you cry foul.What it amounts to is nothing more than an ambush.
You see, I insist that no civilized person could see a connection. It's called crossing a line. Adults should know it, yet many abusive men and congenital idiots don't.
Also, some know-nothing dimwitted Catholics don't understand the importance of never crossing a line. Ted Spe came looking to join a fight against me on the questions of CEOs, banks and illegal aliens. I would never set out to engage, much less set a trap for, such a irrational, erratic and badly informed thinker.
Ok I'm done for the night.
If you're so unhappy here, why don't you go where you're more welcome.
I know one thing, if Tedspe is knocked off in favor of you, I'm going too.
You know, there's this old guy I know. Happens to be Filipino. About 82 now, I think, but he claims to be 79.
Anyway, his favorite singer is Perry Como. But, because his first language is Woiree, due to the province he was born in, and his second language is Tagalog due to living in the Phillipines, and his third language is English, he gets pronunciations mixed up at times.
So, he calls Perry Como his favorite singer. But because of his having English as a third language, it comes off really cute.
He says, phonetically:
"Ferry Como. My pavorite singer!! I lub dat "Palling Star" tsong. Like..
Take a palling star and foot it in your focket, save ip por a rainy daaaay"
Classic.
¿¿¿Que???
Oh, and Gina. Very gallant. Thank you.
hartal? I promised our hostess I would be civil. So I shall.
But...congenital idiots? dimwitted Catholics? irrational, erratic dimwitted (redundant but..ok) thinker?
Remember this:
I know where you sleep.
Mwaaaahahahahahahah!!!
So...
Try to decipher this:
&$@$@#^+)*&%$#$%!#$@^@^@#$!#$)!)*&^%#!#!**#^$%*&#&^($^$&))#$(*$!&*~&!&^~!
If you can answer this puzzle, you're completey safe. If not...
Mwaaaaahahhahhahhaha!!!!!
Just having fun with you, pilgrim. Don't get you panties in a bunch.
Maybe. ;)
wv: outsi. Perfect
Oops. My girl Kim here just told me it was supposed to be:
Bwaaaaahahahahah
Sorry for the typo
;)
All we really know about hartal is that he's dishonest and that he divides his "work" between absurdly boring, pompous, pathetic attempts at scholarly discourse, and absurdly vicious, vituperative, hysterical attacks on other bloggers.
So we know he's dishonest. He lies about his "scholarship," and he lies about his "victories" in "scholarly" debates with other bloggers who are thinking, why is this guy pretending he's synthesized the stuff he's just pasted here?
But what else do we know about hartal? He's vicious. His defensive troll posts show that he's got no capacity for discussion or compromise. He's a liar and a compulsive crank. But what does that say about him, personally? We have to look beneath the surface of his hysterical stuff.
Lately, since we successfully mocked his dull style and provoked him with poetry, hartal has been affecting certain Obama-esque rhythms in his prose. For example:
"hartal3/20/2009 2:47:55 PM [on sfgate, where he's so polite now]
"It's a cliché that hatred of others often involves some hatred of self--for example, people hate in and project onto minorities, qua palimpsest, what they hate about themselves or the longings they have repressed in themselves."
What resonant repetition, huh? And how about that "qua palimpsest"? Is that horseshit, or what? What a piece of dung that poseur is. And how relevant is the "cliche" to hartal's own methodology? Very nice.
Anyway, we know hartal is a liar, a compulsive liar and self-aggrandizing piece of dung, and, given his really nasty trollish stuff, vicious. That's all we know. Isn't that enough?
hartal, crawl back under your pebble. Or, go spend the time with the famous bloggers who enjoy your engagement. Either one. Go.
oh poor xootsuit flailing, wailing and failing in response to me. I get called dung for writing this about Obama's unfortunate special Olympics comment:
"It's a cliché that hatred of others often involves some hatred of self--for example, people hate in and project onto minorities, qua palimpsest, what they hate about themselves or the longings they have repressed in themselves.
Obama's comment last night was intended to be self-deprecating; but perhaps self deprecation often involves deprecation of others. In encouraging others to have a superior snicker at him, he made others the object of that snicker, too.
The point is that we are connected, self and other. Sometimes we imagine the connections in hurtful ways, and sometimes we recognize how hurtful the present connections really are.
And sometimes we strive to reforge those connections in respectful and liberating ways. I am sure that President Obama will be even more motivated than before to do just that.
Recommend:
(10)
No other comment was recommended more than thrice. Xootsuit is just jealous. The metaphor of the palimpsest gets at the fact that discrimination often involves putting a minority's own narrative under erasure so that a narrative suiting the interests of the majority group can be written onto them. I am sorry that you are incapable of understanding metaphor, you doltish blowhard.
ps you're wrong about my being polite on SF Gate now. I excoriated Lochhead for her snide post on China's views on the control of greenhouse gases, and I was vicious and vituperative towards the supporters of Lou Dobbs. dsgonzale6 will have to tell you that my criticisms of Dobbs' supporters were admirable.
I've always preferred Don Novello University. That's the one where you can get a degree in like 30 minutes. I forget the schtick, something about they teach you everything a college grad remembers 10 years after graduating..
Hartal, Xoot, people: let's lay down together, put on some Sitar music, a spot of tea, some samosas...this is ugly.Crude and violent insults are for baseball talk...
qua palmpisest?
Please, allow me to retract in my best Latin:
Cesar...Romero
wv:reteere. What we would have asked hartal to do if we were from West Virginia
I watched Twilight this weekend. mr. suza reminds me of a young jacob black. yummy. looooong hair.
just thought I'd change the subject - anyone else see any movies this weekend?
Michael,
The little kid is batting .455 and making great plays at SS and CF. Hanging tough with older, bigger kids. His joy and developing confidence are wonderful to behold.
How can you equate baseball with insults?
I meant the Splash Wars , Xoot. Baseball is poetry to me, music in the night, fireflies...
I went to Philo today and came home with a witchdoctor. She is getting weirder than I was led to believe. My mother, sister, daughter, and brother are also here and we are about to have a major event. I think the doctor has some recreational drugs on board, home cooked. This is not good. Later.
10 thumbs up? Wow. Those people have a sense of humor.
Tedspe, no offense, as much as I enjoy your posts,it is not gallantry that motivates me, unfortunately.
It's a matter of fairness. And not wanting to expend any energy on a now humorless blog. Sorry, ferret--it was fun while it lasted. Thanks a bunch, Hartal.
P.S. I believe the term for our friend is "wet dishrag". How's that for a big five-dollar expression?
Or maybe a better term is "buzzkill". Or "funsponge". Or "douchebag".
We could have a contest for the best description of Hartal's personality. That might be fun. And then vote on it. That would be even more fun. Or make list of the top ten most descriptive words of Hartal. Or Hartalian logic. Sort of a non-denominational funfest.
Here's another funny common denominator to define this group:
1. Readers of LaSalle.
2. Mostly unmarried.
3. Canstandya Hartal.
wv:ovesses--why, thank you!
Wow. Nice night you guys had. This stands out, Mr. Hartal boasting:
"I excoriated Lochhead for her snide post on China's views on the control of greenhouse gases, and I was vicious and vituperative towards the supporters of Lou Dobbs."
Mr. Hartal, you might want to revisit your business plan.
Mr. Xootsuit, you should not get sucked into those shouting matches. You both end up looking bad.
This is not a business; it's politics. Truth does not have the same value in the former. Global warming is the fundamental threat to humanity; Lochhead's snide dismissal of China's views showed a shocking ignorance of why Kyoto like negotiations are breaking down. This is inexcusable ignorance from a Washington Bureau Chief of a major newspaper. Perhaps you don't think she should have been excoriated.
Now Lou Dobbs recently accused the HIspanic Business Council of being a front organization for drug running and human smuggling. That too deserves a sharp response. Even dsgonzale6 will have to admit to you that his response to the Dobbs' supporters was mostly vitriol while mine were empirically grounded and devastating.
If you all want to talk about Gina's boot collection, I am not stopping you. Do what you think is interesting. If dsgonzale6 wants to talk about the Gaussian copula function and the financial crisis or margin calls, I am here to engage.
Why would you want to engage a Stanford trained lawyer who insisted that the majority of illegal immigrants have only been here a short time while his own data showed that more than half have been here for over five years though the majority who do enter do seem to return even if at markedly lower rates since the commencement of the border war in the 90s?
Mr. Hartal, did you just invite Mr. Gonzales to copulate? You might want to engage an editor.
I engaged that point of view to put into public view the conditions of illegal workers. In particular, I was to emphasize that many of them have had children (probably well over one million born here to illegal workers) and that the pressures for deportation could potentially have a traumatic effect on their lives. So I engaged that point of view to voice some resistance to a totally reactionary solution to mounting unemployment.
*
Your sophomoric humor does not interest me. Copula=connection, suggesting in this context a test of the measure of the correlation among individual mortgages for default risk. You did not follow the discussion; go talk about Gina's boots.
"mounting unemployment"
You really know how liven up your abstract fantasies, Mr. Hartal. That's your business. But please draw the curtain.
The false premises make their regular appearance once again. And as for the half-witted racists, the phrase "pearls before swine" comes to mind; I save my pearls for those who can appreciate them. And then there was my earlier comment about wrestling with pigs.... I have two closing quotations, in keeping with the topic of this thread: (1)"Knowledge is good." (2) "Cats is dogs and rabbits is dogs but tortoises is insects and travel free according."
wv: myeedsti
Okay folks. I'm sick like a frickin' dog, here, and haven't been as conscientious as I should be. Mostly, because in my fevered state, I really don't care. However, if people are talking about leaving because of one bad apple, than I will need to take action.
Please don't anybody leave until I can think straight, and try to figure this out. The solution seems obvious, but it's one that I've already expressed an aversion to, so I'd prefer not to go that route.
However, since it's apparent some of you are unable to police yourselves, I may just have to do it for you.
Hope you feel better, FH!
Get well, JM. Ride it out
There was a man whose son played in our little league for a couple of years who pushed the tolerant people running the league to the breaking point. His voice was unbelievably loud and he loved to celebrate errors and misfortune that befell the team opposing his son's.
E.g., collision at third; fielder goes down screaming, blood pouring from his face, as the ball rolls away. This guy would be on the grass ten feet away cheering and ordering the runner to get up and sprint to home plate. After the run scored, he would applaud and beam like a conqueror, while more responsible adults were giving first aid to the injured kid.
We all did what we could to silence him, but he could not stop. He was compulsive. An ump might threaten to halt the game if he shouted in his distracting way again, and he would retaliate by sneaking up near the backstop while his son's team was in the field to whisper to the batter, "You can't hit this guy. You're a chump. You're no good."
On top of it all, the guy had a really big muscular dog, a bull mastiff, I think, that he refused to put a leash on. The dog actually took a dump in centerfield between innings one morning.
The guy was a god damned little league troll. Some of us took him head on; some tried politesse and charm; some tried obliquity. Nothing worked. Everyone felt terrible for they guy's son. Everyone also felt regret and disappointment about the various ways we tried to "police" the guy. Our social fabric was vanishing like a shop rag soaked in battery acid. Finally, after great debate and agony, the league gave the man the boot.
btw, in case you're wondering, he was a wealthy white guy.
wv: tacerf
I used to live tacerf.
ferret, when wracked with fever, one should always don warm footwear. Do you have any Ugg boots? Dark brown ones? ;)
I still maintain that censorship gets in the way of a fool's defeating himself. I've seen referece to the Black Knight scene in 'Monty Python & the Holy Grail'. There's a better one, though. In an old Bollywood classic called 'Sholay', an old geezer whose arms were hacked off proceeds to kick ass like Bruce Lee on crack. Exposure to such a film at an impressionable age could forever alter one's sense of When To Give It Up...
And I'd still be going to those games, xoot, if those little ingrates hadn't set fire to my pants!
;)
Wow. My wv? swear to God. it's TEDLE
I'm with TS, but I do empathize. Lead by example, I always say; it's a good aspiration, even if I frequently fail.
wv: calipli
dsgonzale6, did you ever know that you're me heeee-ro?
http://tinyurl.com/d8rzkx
You think that guy's an "old geezer"? Whoa.
wv: trips
at one time, yes
Every guy's a geezer, mate. That one's just old(er than me).
I don't trust anyone over 40. Next year it will be 41. No, truthfully, I posted that before I grabbed the clip... it had been a while since I'd seen it. They do play up the 'poor old armless man' bit in the film. I suppose the child bride makes him appear comparitively older, too...
Sorry if I offended you, old chap.
No one ever said I was responsible for this country going to hell before. The worst thing anyone ever called me before was a Nazi. I must be moving up in the world.
wv: yelite indeed.
no problema, joven
Dare to dream, DSG
Xootsuit, just because I have made you cry like a baby for protection from the moderator does not mean that you are akin to a child being bullied by a wealthy white father on a little league field--and aren't you the one always bragging about the upscale neighborhood you live in and the pretty penny you make for God knows what.
You are all supposed to be adults who should be able to handle the kind of sharp responses that you know you're all capable of writing. But I am not surprised that I have made you feel like a boy being bullied by a man that you can't stand up to.
I'll take leave and let FH help her little leaguers such as xoot, Gina. Winkingtiger and Ted Spe (obviously on the IR) develop their skills in practice so that one day they may be able to hit a good pitch.
Not everyone is cut out to hit a fastball, but we are all capable of and obligated to advance and deepen our democracy. So do work at it.
You completely missed the point of Xootsuit's story, Mr. Hartal. He quite clearly said that he took the would-be bully head on. The bully just had a serious behavior disorder that apparently prevented him from acting like a civil human being.
You are not further democracy, sir. You are ranting and raving and accusing people of posting things they have not posted, of saying things they have not said. Your goal is perverse. Your product is too.
I hope no one else bothers to respond to you. Goodby.
Dear Ferret:
I hope you're feeling better. I will send you some nice chicken soup over as soon as my mammy prepares it.
Sincerely,
Miss Gina Gavone
P.s,Dear. DO NOT even think about putting on a pair of those uGGS. That's short for 'ugly', you know....and if you go around in ugly boots I can guarantee you that you'll never have wild spontaneous sex wearing only pulled down jeans and those boots.
wv: turni...some of my favorite veggies.
Sorry. This occurred to me while I was waiting for the BART train.
What do you do? I'm a big leaguer. Really, baseball? Blogging. Oh, uh, well, I spend a lot of time on line, would I have heard of you? I'm certain of it, I'm brilliant. What name do you post as? I prefer not to say. Uh huh . . . oh, look there's the guest of honor, I should go say hello. [hmph, there's no guest of honor, I really intimidated him, now who should I dazzle next?]
And now, a song, somewhat paraphrased cuz I can't remember all the lyrics, from THE GIANT GILA MONSTER. Those of you who are fans of bad horror movies might remember this. It's just a short, cute little ditty, and goes a little something like this:(ahem):
(verse)
(astaccoretardosio/slightly slow)/
There once was a mushroom
Pretty little mushroom
Growing in the land of all of us
`
And thus said this mushroom
Pretty little mushroom
We will enjoy all the world around us
(chorus)
(speddupuppustambourinetus/slightly PTL Club)
And the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh" and the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh" and the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh" and the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh" and the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh" and the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh" and the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh" and the Lord said "Laugh Children Laugh"
`
Thank you! Thank you! Be sure to tip your waitresses and remember! We're here all week!
I could have sworn that our dear hostess asked that no one leave until she was feeling better and could think straight and figure this thing out. Oh, well....
Hey! Come on DSG! I'm still here. And here's another little tune we've had a lotta luck with these past few years.
Anda one anda two anda...
;)
wv: triterip
I roasted one of those for dinner tonight. Quiet night.
Carnak is in the building? ;)
wv: knersh
Karnak holds the envelope to his turban.
"Catch 22"
He opens it.
"What do the Dodgers do when you hit them 100 fly balls?"
xoot, that one sounded real.
Yeah, it is real. What can I say: I'm a Giants fan.
Baby, take off your coat...(real slow)
Baby, take off your scarf...(here, Ill take your scarf)
Baby, take off your dress
Yes, yes, yes
You can leave your UGGs on
You can leave your UGGs on
You can leave your UGGs on
Go on over there and turn on the light...no, all the lights
Now come back here and stand on this chair...thats right
Raise your arms up in to the air...shake em
You give me a reason to live
You give me a reason to live
You give me a reason to live
Suspicious minds are talking
Trying to tear us apart
They say that my love is wrong
They dont know what love is
They dont know what love is
They dont know what love is
They dont know what love is
I know what love is
-----------------------------
Randy (indeed) Newman
WV: binge... yes, yes, yes.
Runner-up.Worst song lyrics ever:
My Baby Rocks
My baby she rocks, and rolls
and rocks whenever she walks
my baby she rocks, and rolls
and rocks whenever she talks
My baby’s a rock-n-rollin’ tippy-toein
Never knowin’ always glowin’ baby
My baby she swings, and sings
And swings whenever I bring her things
She swings, and sings
And swings for little diamond rings
Swing and ring and bells’ll ring
And happy flingin’ pleasure bringin’ baby
My baby she rocks, and rolls
My baby she rocks whenever she walks
My baby she swings, and sings
Swings whenever I bring her things
And rock-n-rollin’ tippy toein’
Never knowin’ always glowin’
Swing and sing and bells’ll ring
And happy flingin’ pleasure bringin’ baby….
This would be a great tune, especially Joan's version, but this line is probably the pukiest:
Save my love through loneliness,
Save my love for sorrow,
I'm given you my onliness,
Come give your tomorrow.
Onliness? Onliness??? Is that even a word?
You are so weird, TS.
All this lyricism inspired me to go look for a good youtube version of Cadillac Walk. Found one that was good musically, but the video didn't sync.
Doesn't ANYBODY remember Will De Ville? (Or Moon Martin?)
Look. I gotta be honest. As a last ditch effort, I thought if I just started posting crazy nonsensical posts, it might exorcise the demon.
I apologize for being so silly and stupid.
It was just a..like i said...last ditch effort
Noble.
"Save my love through loneliness,
Save my love for sorrow,
I'm given you my onliness..."
Did you hear Tim Hardin sing that? He could sing the phone book and break your heart...
I didn't realize that Tim Hardin wrote that song. I always thought that it was Joan Baez. She really sings it like she owns it, you know? And, she wasn't known for her writing skills. Interestingly enough, that lack of talent is how she and Dylan got together. She relied on him for help with lyrics and he relied on her for exposure. It was all good for a while.
I'll have to check out Tim Hardin, I can't recall what he sounds like, thanks Twinnie.
Ted--I think it may have worked. Nothing to apologize for. We owe you our gratitude, I think.
wv:renation:Removing a demon from the retina.
I think that's the word,Ted!
Tim was a tragic figure, a heroin addict, he died too young. Last I saw him perform was at a dive in North Beach near the end of his life. He looked just awful, he trembled, he never made it through his set. But my goodness, when he did sing, his voice was as tender and sweet and emotional as ever. He made you hurt.
Xoot, it seems to me that Willy and Moon were both creatures of a brief moment in time that has not repeated itself.
BTW, while I was perfectly willing to go along with our dear hostess's wishes with regard to a certain person, I can't say that I'm unhappy about the apparent outcome.
I have nothing to say, but my wv was tedrobly.
Mink De Ville was a little before my time but my sister was a huge fan. his version of Martin's CADILLAC WALK is the only one I remember off hand. Mink De Ville used to play the Mabuhuay a lot if I recall. And Hardin I only know as a songwriter. I might have heard him sing but I'm not sure.
Really rattling the old cobwebs
Censorship blows. I'm off SFGate again. Oh well.
By the way, FWIW, the last post I made that showed up was the mention of the similarity in appearance between LaSalle and Stan Laurel.
Still sick. Still adore you all. Ted, I have a very soft spot in my heart for blogs about lyrics...good work!
Carry on for a little bit more, I should be bringing a new post by the weekend. This thing has me down, but good... I hope you all stay healthy.
JM HAS RISEN! If only briefly.
Good to see(see?) you're still among the breathing. Take care of yourself. We miss you.
TooSense, I'm confused. Are you saying you were kicked off of SFGate for comparing LaSalle's looks to Stan Laurel?
Something that benign gets you kicked off?
Stan Laurel and LaSalle don't look alike. Even ignoring the hair, and the no hair, Laurel's mobile, constantly changing facial expressions are completely different than LaSalle's few smug looks. I doubt you got banned for that comparison.
LaSalle E-Mailed me once and warned me that my posts were getting too personal. I had made fun of his turkey dressing.
Ok, I did ( in jest) invite his wife to have dinner with me. So that, too...
Get well soon, dear hostess. Perhaps we can talk about Natasha Richardson's performance in Widow's Peak. :)
When an artist can make you hurt--they're good. It reminds me of the the Van Gogh exhibit in La a while back. I'll never forget near the end of the exhibit and seeing his 'Wheatfield with Crows " painting. Brought such a sharp pain and tears to my eyes. It just floored me. That is one powerful piece of work.
I can only imagine that some artists must just feel everything so intensely that they need drugs to numb themselves from the pain. I think that's why so many different kinds of artists have substance abuse problems and many commit suicide. Life just hurts too much for them.
Nothing more to add to that thought, but I agree, Gina.
Hang in there, ferret! Get well soon...
Re: LaSalle, I just thought there was a resemblance on that very paused moment in the placeholder of the clip that he posted. It wasn't an insult, just an observation.
I could have been later posts that got me booted, but I'm not typically ignored on SFGate : D and I noticed that every post since then got nothing. I usually score at least a dozen thumbs down, fer cryin' out loud! Anyway, to summarize... I find it tragic what happened to those cops. I don't believe we should nuke the entire African American race for it. A censorship-worthy mindset, perhaps... now I have to go through twinfan's whole set-em up Joe routine again. Sigh... the price of Patriotism.
TS: It's very weird revisiting that song lyric discussion on MSM and seeing that your posts have been erased. You were pretty blunt in your critique of my posts about Tangled Up in Blue. I still say the meter in that "did feel the same" phrase is fatally flawed. But clearly I should have consulted some lyric sites before I ventured into Dylan territory.
So the bluntness really didn't bother me. Now, without your comments on the blog, my initial mistake doesn't look so bad. Silence one voice and the sound of all others changes.
So censorship really is insidious. Still, there are different forms of it and different reasons for it.
When the Sandinistas censored the Nicaraguan newspapers in the 80s, they used to allow the publishers to print the papers with blank space where the missing stories would have been. Then there was a central office in Managua where anyone could read what had been excised. (One famous series of censored stories, sponsored by the CIA, reported on an image of Christ in somebody's backyard that delivered anti-government sermons at unpredictable intervals.)
During the same period, I read that in South Africa censored newspapers were forced to reset their pages to cover up the fact that stories had been removed. And, if I recall correctly, the stories were totally suppressed.
Anyway, hope you get reinstated with full back pay.
TS, my friend, that is a very touchy situation. It might be best to leave it alone until it cools off.
"now I have to go through twinfan's whole set-em up Joe routine again."
I don't follow.
twin... I was referring to your advice to hartal re: the ip address, the email account. The re-setting up of the blog identity. I just realized my analogy was not a good one to use... my apologies for that and know that there was no ill intent there.
xoot, I could see that lyric making sense either way: 'we always didn't feel the same/ (sigh) we just saw it from a different point of view' or 'we always did feel the same/ we just say it from a different point of view (intriguingly)'. I didn't bother posting that, because in contemplating both, I started wondering if I was wrong about the first case, and went to BD's site to check the lyric. I had also done that when I grabbed the 'fuse' line way back when. I guess I seemed blunt, but to me, they both made sense (although I wasn't considering meter, hence the drawl joke after the fact). Or was the bluntness in referring you to Bob's site, in defense of my (ahem, correct) relating of the 'fuse' line? :)
dsg, I got to thinking about that last night, and how it relates to censorship. The idealist in me wants to think that voices confronting the angry mob are censored with the notion that it's better to let the mob vent to prevent further escalation, while dissent amongst them could provoke them further... but the cynic in me can't help but recognize that provocation could and often does stem from the venting itself. Unfettered, the mob can work itself up into a frenzy. Besides, something about reading comments about how Oakland is a cesspool caused by irresponsible breeding on the part of ignorant blacks just plain rubs me the wrong way. Not so much in that it is expressed, but in that the opposing viewpoint had to be silenced to lend legitimacy... or was it to serve as an example to those enlightened enough to see that lunatic rantings surrounded by [this post has been censored] tells you all you need to know. I've always been a bit uncomfortable to see that message dovetailing my own comments, because I feel guilty by association. Let all fools speak freely, I say, myself included.
TS, just to be clear, I'm no fan of censorship. What I'm talking about is more along the lines of discretion being the better part of valor. I would be rubbed the wrong way reading comments like those, too, which is why I chose not to read those comments. It's bad enough to watch the news and get worked up seeing the people on both sides say ridiculous things; at least there all I end up doing is yell at the TV in private. Wit the comment board, my lack of decorum would be there for everyone to see, until it got taken down. I do try when posting to stay on the right side of the "abusive" line, by attacking ideas instead of people.
dsg, no worries, I know where you're coming from. Did I mention you're my heeee-ee-ro? ;)
My older daugher is good friends with a wonderful girl whose mom was an Oakland cop--she's African-American-- and trained by two of the slain officers. She will be at the funeral. Her first reaction was that the parole system is broken, though (as we found out later) it may have functioned well in this case with the resources that it has. But the system does not have the resources that it needs--and that was her first point of emphasis. She also emphasized that parts of Oakland are entry points for new parolees and to the extent that they are geographically concentrated, there is no public pressure to expand the parole sytem, and just as a few very wealthy people can bring widespread benefits to an upper middle class suburb, a few parolees can disrupt an entire poor community. Inequality has become self-reinforcing, and she felt equally for the brave cops who trained her and for the good poor people trapped in their existence. She knows that the disrespect that they have to live with every day due to the violent felons that our society concentrates into only a few communities.
The first cops were vulnerable because they were on motorcycles and did not have anything to hide behind. The two other officers did not see the closet door through which they were shot dead.
At any rate, I took xootsuit's advice, and have been having a great time at Brad DeLong's blog, talking about the Geithner-Summers plan, and I had an eminent law prof confirm for me off the record that the constitutionality of the FDIC-Treasury subsidies is in question.
What the great artists struggle with is not just intense feeling but discrepancy. The artist struggles to give expression to our complex and often riven affectual being and senses more keenly than others the failure of extant language, symbols and modes of representation to capture the turmoil of our inner lives. The artist is vulnerable to despair.
Well, that was some entertaining reading, made all the more fun because no one I know was getting stuck in that Joel Chandler Harris homunculus.
There's a Dylan song whose lyrics might be apropos here, but they're not coming to me clearly yet. Maybe I need to ask Norah, Quincy and John Paul.
TS, I'm just trying to keep you out of trouble. :)
sorry affectual should have been affective. Just wanted to separate affective from effective, I suppose. No need to engage me, just thought that I would pass on the response of the former officer on such a sad day.
http://www.archive.org/details/dontfeedthetrolls
xoot, I need your help. I think dsgonzale6 is preparing to bill me...
I didn't think I was being *that* obscure. ;)
I am quite fond of Brandy Alexanders meself.
Maybe John was just lactose intolerant?
Uh oh, I think I took too much cold medicine...back to bed
a working class hero is something to be
JM, my sweet.
There's no such a thing as too much cold medicine.
It's always enough
Or not enough
scary WV:
mates
Paraphrasing the Monkees. The way I would write it tonight.:
Look out
Here comes tomorrow
That's when
I have to choose
How I
Wish I could borrow
someone else's shoes
`
Mary,(mary)
oh what a sweet girl
lips like
strawberry wine
Sandra (sandra)
long hair in pigtails
Can't make up my mind!!!
`
WELL I SEEE,
ALL KINDS OF SORROW
Wish I
Only loved one
`
WELL LOOKOUT,
HERE COMES TOMORROW
`
Oh how I wish tomorrow
would never come
oh
wv: gasmic
Missing the prelude "or"
"Besides, something about reading comments about how Oakland is a cesspool caused by irresponsible breeding on the part of ignorant blacks just plain rubs me the wrong way."
See, now, TS. With an opinion like that, you should be pro-life. I refer you to the philosophies of one Margaret Sanger.
This is all I'm saying about the matter.
wv: viumea--What ferret has. Are you getting rest and drinking fluids? We've all chipped in and sent you some nice flowers--they should be there soon.
If we judged ideas solely based on the character or intentions of their creator, whither Volkswagen, Scientology, and ERISA?
Huh? Whither? Isn't that a castrated goat?
I can't understand your accent,dsg...speak more clearly, please.
The Volkswagen was essentially created by Adolf Hitler, L. Ron Hubbard started Scientology as a scam, and ERISA was put into place by Richard Nixon.
Dr. Porsche created the VW. Hitler merely capitalized on it.
Herr Dr. P. also went on to design some very fuel efficient, easy-to-park, super hot rods. Best (and simplest) car I ever owned was a 912. Outran the CHP on winding roads outside of Grass Valley one night when I was 30 (chronologically). Zipped onto an offroad and cut the lights, watched the big lightshow roar past, then backed out and went the other way home real quick.
Dr. Porsche doesn't belong in the same sentence with Nixon.
Thanks, dsg.
Mr. Zoot. That's quite an image you just painted. Have we ever established whither or not you're married? Hmmmmm?
where did all of winking tiger's posts go...? WT - you left? what the hell?!
Is it an old joke or is it the truth that the Nazi helmut and the VW bug are designed after each other?
helmut? pretty funny, Ted.
Back in the early 70s there was a dock strike in LA and VW had to unload all of its new cars at Ensenada and pay drivers to take them to Calif. Same time a friend and I were driving down Baja to go surfing for a week. The desert highway was pretty much empty on our south bound side of the road. The other side of the road was an unending stream of VW bugs in bright yellow, orange, blue, red, etc. etc., headed north under the blazing summer sun.
Yes, what did happen to Winking Tiger?
winkingtiger is no longer participating in this blog. Good call on the Tony Hendra, Ted.
I hope JMF is feeling better, not a peep out of her.
I'm a little late to hop this bandwagon, but I just listened to DEAR SCIENCE from start to finish for the first time today. Holy shit! What a great album.
WV-trolio (Trolio, Trolio, where for art though?)
Please go on, Zoot. About the surfing part.
Earthquake! Woohoo!
http://tinyurl.com/cmdmdc
Izzat what that was? I thought I just got up too quick. By the way, that's me in the pic, between Don H. and xootsuit.
No thaw yet?
wv: mescarda One button?
That was a long time ago, Gina.
;)
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